Curse

Jhyphi · Aug 27, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Although with 5 seconds cast time, and 5 seconds to kill a spirit, and easy interruption while you're trying to cast it, I'd argue that not being able to prevent by having multiple guys carry multiple of the same skill (many skill slots wasted is the cost) is a big detriment.

During battle, they're nearly impossible to get off and their affect foes and enemies alike greatly decreases their value along with earlier mentioned points.

In which case, I'm wondering why wards aren't made worse. Those only affect allies/foes, therefore inherently better, low cast times, low recharge times (NOT requiring you to use up an elite to bring Oath Shot), can't kill once cast(could be wrong on this).

*Note* I almost never use spirits on my ranger to begin with so I'm not in love with them or anything. Just from my logical analysis, it seems a bit overkill all the changes and now they're made really weak. Everything except for the allies same type is fine. Even 1 person, 1 spirit of that type would work and all the other changes to spirits they made. Thoughts why this would be overpowered?

Mithie · Aug 27, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavrik

I have a lv17 bear which if it dies, remains dead cause I have comfort animal replaced with another skill, usually a spirit.

I use NR when going up against enemies or bosses that use hex spells. Some for example will only try and cast hex spells and therefore are not to hard to kill. As for someone telling me to quit playing my ranger this way... So far what I have been doing has worked just fine for me.

Your team must hate you.

carnivore · Aug 27, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

well they did nerf the machine gun bow ranger. but then again not alot of people liked that one anyway

thetop · Aug 27, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

It does sound like whining... my bad. Some clarifications:

1. I don't do PVP, at least not yet, so to all of the PVP crowd - sorry guys I don't know what you're talking about.

2. I don't care much about NR, used it only a couple times (my E/R had it when was soloing all the necros in ring of fire). But I really hate the nerfing of QZ. Currently I use (or try to use) QZ + EW + a few traps + a few defences and try to group with 4-5 nukers. I lay traps and tank for them while they kill fast

Worked pretty well and the nukers love the faster recharge and lower energy cost. Unfortunately that is almost impossible now since I can't lay enough traps fast and keep QZ up...

3. Try using QZ + EW + Serpent Quickness + Dust trap (25) with 10 points in Expertise. Sometimes it costs 10, sometimes 7, so... 1 of these is broken. Don't know which one but with 0 in expertise it always costs 10.

4. My biggest concern is that now the ranger is labelled as "Nerfed", so it seems to be even harder to get good PVE group for anything.

To all that jump in with advices about Thunderhead... I think that mission has been "fixed" since you've done it. Try it now with henches. I bet you won't even get to defending the keep

Kishin · Aug 27, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

To all that jump in with advices about Thunderhead... I think that mission has been "fixed" since you've done it. Try it now with henches. I bet you won't even get to defending the keep

Haha...no.

I bet you suck at pulling, then, because I did it quite recently on an alt with henchman (Who, by the way, are better than about 90% of the players in Guild Wars, because, although they are statistically weaker, they actually follow orders and can be managed to not aggro everything in sight if you know what you're doing). I can't even fathom what would be a challenge up until the keep

There's two, maybe three mildly challenging pulls in that entire mission. One at the long bridge, one after you clear out the fort, where there's a roaming group of Gnashers that will jump you while you're mixing up with a group of Arcanists unless you're patient. The third is with Dagnar and his two groups of Arcanists, but you can pretty easily draw Dagnar away from them and slaughter his limp wristed water

10 is also an awkward number in Expertise that causes rounding in the formula.

And the Ranger is sure far from nerfed. If people only played it for spirit spam, let them quit. I'll be even more content in the knowledge that those of us who do know how to play Rangers are out there now, and the game is all the better because of it.

thetop · Aug 27, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Hmmm... Thats strange. You can't actually pull anything while the king is following you, couse he rushes in and aggroes all he can. I agree henches aren't bad and can be managed easily, but not the king... Or maybe that's another recent "fix".

Yes, the PvE ranger is not nerfed, it's just "labeled" as nerfed. Unfortunately that's enough to make finding good groups even harder.

Hell Marauder · Aug 27, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Nope, this update shouldn't make rangers less desirable in PVE. Quite opposite, now pet has same level of armor as a hammer warrior, and with Otruygh's Cry can be boosted even further to 100 AL, each ranger with pet is a powerful unit. I actually think this update is good for rangers in the long run. Nerfing spirits only affect a small part of wilderness survival line, but buffing pet affects the entire beastmastery line.

Shusky · Aug 27, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Well, I played a lot today in random arenas with a sniper/tank (100+ dmg per shot vs spellcasters), and did awesome. Well, special thanks go to enemy warriors who can't figure out they should stop attacking me when I switch between Whirling Defense and Escape constantly, but still, my build worked better than ever before.

I haven't tried my other builds with this ranger though. Like the runner or poisoner or massive distractor or trapper or chop-chopper or the annoying bastard that makes all melee defunct.

Flexibility is the Ranger's best friend. Seriously, when you see a Ranger in the opposing team, you can NEVER know how he's going to kill you. Rangers 4tw

Mana Garmr · Aug 27, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Hmmm... Thats strange. You can't actually pull anything while the king is following you, couse he rushes in and aggroes all he can. I agree henches aren't bad and can be managed easily, but not the king... Or maybe that's another recent "fix".

The king only attacks enemies when one of them comes within his aggro range (which may or may not be the same radius as a normal players', not sure). I was using a long-bow and had no problems withe the king charging off unless one of the Giant herders came near me and thereby got themselves noticed by him.

As for whether it was changed I did it last Friday and Sunday, first with my ranger then my necro, so unless it was changed with the latest update, which they would have mentioned in the update notes, it should still be doable.

myword · Aug 27, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

why do rangers get ignored? probably the same reason mesmers/necros do
their effects on the battlefield is usually subtle and not noticed by most people

and, some people just have really bad builds...

Kishin · Aug 27, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

Hmmm... Thats strange. You can't actually pull anything while the king is following you, couse he rushes in and aggroes all he can. I agree henches aren't bad and can be managed easily, but not the king... Or maybe that's another recent "fix".

Yes, the PvE ranger is not nerfed, it's just "labeled" as nerfed. Unfortunately that's enough to make finding good groups even harder.

He works just like Stefan/Thom/Devona. If you pull something at range and then back up quickly, he follows you rather than rush forward, since as someone said, you're keeping that enemy out of his aggro circle.

Ensign · Aug 27, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

1. I don't do PVP, at least not yet, so to all of the PVP crowd - sorry guys I don't know what you're talking about.

Balance changes are made mostly for PvP, since that's where most imbalances become apparent. Only the grossest of imbalances get nixed in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

But I really hate the nerfing of QZ.

QZ was retarded, you'd see it in just about every top GvG build - and those that didn't run it counted on an opponent running it. The energy cost change really is over the top, though, and straightforward to work around - I don't like that particular change. Personally I'd have gutted the skill, making it along the lines of Energizing Winds instead - 30% higher energy costs, no skills take longer than 20 seconds to cooldown. We'll see how guilds decide to work around the 25 energy cost now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

3. Try using QZ + EW + Serpent Quickness + Dust trap (25) with 10 points in Expertise.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the variable energy cost comes almost entirely from QZ / EW interactions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

4. My biggest concern is that now the ranger is labelled as "Nerfed", so it seems to be even harder to get good PVE group for anything.

Which is really funny, considering that nothing the Ranger did in PvE was nerfed. In fact they got buffed. Public perception changes slowly I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetop

To all that jump in with advices about Thunderhead... I think that mission has been "fixed" since you've done it. Try it now with henches. I bet you won't even get to defending the keep

Just did it a few minutes ago with my Ranger/Necro. Barrage, Penetrating Attack, Dual Shot, Tiger's Fury, Charm Animal, Comfort Animal, Distracting Shot, Strip Enchantment - those last two brought specifically to kill Monk bosses. Brought six henchies - Aidan and Dunham get to sit on the bench when I play. Completed the mission with ease, no player or henchie deaths, and only one pet death. Pulled both Monk bosses in the keep, too - that was rather annoying. I did notice some changes since I first played the mission (Dorian comes with a pack now), but nothing too significant.

Methinks you just need to get better.

Peace,
-CxE

Maika Boila Radovu · Aug 27, 2005, 11:16 PM // 23:16

I know there is a huge perception in the PvE community that rangers arent that great. Mesmers often fall into this category as well. Think how many times you've been trying to start a mission watching the spam, Need 2 tanks 2 nukers and 2 monks.

The strange thing is when you are in a town there is always a large group of rangers, everyone wants to be one but no one wants them in there group.

The next time your making a group take all the rangers, 5-6 rangers 1 or 2 monks fill in extra spots with anything. I personally love getting a mesmer to mess any casters up.

In your group all rangers take Charm Animal, but only one takes Revive Animal and no one takes Comfort animal. 1-2 Rangers take Favourable Winds. Everyone takes Troll Unguent. You have one Trapping and the rest fill up with DPS skills and any secondary profession skills they want.

This group will float through every mission guaranteed. And the best part is you make an owning PuG with all the ppl no one else wanted. While everyone else is whining about how hard it is and how they need 3 monks to finish it the rangers take care of themselves and float through with ease.

My experience has been the more rangers the better. The added benefit with having lots of rangers is you can really control the pace of the mission because you can pick and choose how you attack.

trelloskilos · Aug 27, 2005, 11:30 PM // 23:30

very true, and even better for every Ranger, even with the QZ nerf, UW trapping Rangers seem to be becoming the new UW farming class of choice. Granted, they can't solo, but with just 3 or even 2 trappers, the UW is still very fruitful, and there seem to be more Trapping rangers coming to ToA evry day. The QZ nerf is easy to work around, and a really good group don't even need it other than to mark out traps, distract monsters, or use it to time off lures.

Even better, unlike the majority of monks who played the 105 smite build, and who now RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO themselves as tanks for 1k and free entry (as if all those months of farming solo didn't boost their bank balance), it seems that there are still rangers who are happy to join mixed groups and teach newbies how to trap for fun and profit.

Elena · Aug 27, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

rangers worse lmao i was dancing seeing how concussion shot went off faster while i yelled dazed for every one! yay

Mana Garmr · Aug 28, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maika Boila Radovu

I know there is a huge perception in the PvE community that rangers arent that great. Mesmers often fall into this category as well. Think how many times you've been trying to start a mission watching the spam, Need 2 tanks 2 nukers and 2 monks.

Yeah, I see that far too often. These days I generally try to start the group myself with my ranger, or else find a monk or necro who's starting one and try to join up there. Seems to go much better that way. I'd add Mesmer to that but I hardly ever seem to see any trying to start one.

The thing I always find weird is being in a group being formed by a warrior which already has a second warrior in it, and then watching the leader ignore all the casters who are LFG or have requested to join because s/he thinks another warrior would be a better choice. No disrespect to warriors, I've seen some great one's in PUGs I've joined, but in a lot of missions even 2 is more than is necessary.